Difficult Questions for Mormons

Rats, I was just looking forward to having some fun answering the Difficult Questions for Mormons but I found that the folks over at SHIELDS have already done it.

As they point out, none of these questions is particularly difficult to answer with a little research, although I suppose they may be difficult for most Mormons to answer off the cuff.

Update: I’m trying to answer the difficult questions for Mormons myself, just for fun.

Comments

  1. The Book of Mormon seems to attack the Bible, claiming that some evil church has “taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious” (1 Nephi 13:26). Yet, in other instances, Mormonism seems to accept the Bible as authoritative. The Joseph Smith Translation has been adopted into the footnotes of the King James Version Bible, although Smith did not finish the translation. In effect, the completeness and clarity of Bible has been left in question. The Encyclopedia of Mormonism states about the Bible and its authority,

    Latter-day Saints share with Protestants a conviction of the importance of the scriptures, an extensive lay priesthood, and the primacy of faith in Jesus Christ. But they differ from Protestants by affirming a centralized authority headed by a latter-day prophet, by performing temple ordinances for the living and dead, and by asserting the eternal nature of the marriage covenant.

    Although the Mormon Church recognizes all 66 books as authoritative, they suggest that some of books of the Bible are in question. The Book of Mormon contains Isaiah chapters 2 to 14, yet noticibly missing is Isaiah 1 and chapters 15-66. Mormons could say that Chapters 15 where yet to be written, however, why is Isaiah Chapter 1 missing? The whole Chpater 1 text is found in the Great Isaiah Scroll dated 150BC. In cludes this famous verse, "Come now, and let us areason together, saith the Lord: though your bsins be as scarlet, they shall be as cwhite as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool," Isaiah 1:18.

    So, my question to Mormons is this: why has the Book of Mormon lost something that is plain and precious? I have studied the Bible for many years and no Mormon has been able to show me one plain and precious thing that was once in the Bible, and then removed. Do you know of a lost precious doctrine that was once in the Bible? If so, I would love to see it.

  2. The Book of Mormon hasn't "lost" anything, but it is a selective book that only includes writings that are related to its stated objective as specified on the title page–"…to show unto the remnant of the House of Israel what great things the Lord hath done for their fathers; and that they may know the covenants of the Lord, that they are not cast off forever—And also to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God, manifesting himself unto all nations…"–anything that wasn't directly related to that objective was probably left out, even if it might be important in other ways. The Book of Mormon was never intended to be a complete records of everything God ever wanted man to know. The writer of the Book of Mormon said that due to the limited space he could not include anywhere close to 1% of what he could have written.

    As for some of the plain and precious truths that were lost from the Bible over the years, here's a few of them. Just a few examples are that Abraham saw in vision the Son of God and knew of the resurrection, that the second set of tablets given to Moses contained a lesser law than the first set, that we should "judge not unrighteously" as opposed to not judging at all, details about the childhood of Jesus, and clarification that both faith and works are necessary for salvation.

  3. Joshua,

    You said, "Just a few examples are that Abraham saw in vision the Son of God and knew of the resurrection, that the second set of tablets given to Moses contained a lesser law than the first set, that we should “judge not unrighteously” as opposed to not judging at all, details about the childhood of Jesus, and clarification that both faith and works are necessary for salvation."

    MATTS RESPONSE: The vision of Abraham was never in the Bible. Show me evidence that it was. Also, the second set of tablets are in the Bible. They were never lost.

    Exodus 34:1 KJV "And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest."

    Do you believe Exodus 34:1 that words in the first set of tablets were the same words in the second set? I believe the Bible. Do you?

    Judging with unrighteously is a principle in the Old Testament. Please show me the evidence that the something plain of precious was in the BIble and taken out.

    Do you see why I do not believe in the Book of Mormon? The Bible has not lost anything "plain of precious." In fact, the Book of Mormon LOST the first chapter of Isaiah! Tell me why Isaiah Chapter 1 is not found in the Book of Mormon??? The only reason is because somebody overlooked it or lost it.

    Matt

  4. You say these writings were never in the Bible and ask me for proof that they were. What proof do you have that they weren't?

    Mormons do believe in the Bible, but we believe that in many places it has been modified from what the prophets and apostles originally wrote. We believe Exodus 34:1-2 was originally written as follows:

    1 And the Lord said unto Moses, Hew thee two other tables of stone, like unto the first, and I will write upon them also, the words of the law, according as they were written at the first on the tables which thou brakest; but it shall not be according to the first, for I will take away the priesthood out of their midst; therefore my holy order, and the ordinances thereof, shall not go before them; for my presence shall not go up in their midst, lest I destroy them.

    2 But I will give unto them the law as at the first, but it shall be after the law of a carnal commandment; for I have sworn in my wrath, that they shall not enter into my presence, into my rest, in the days of their pilgrimage. Therefore do as I have commanded thee, and be ready in the morning, and come up in the morning unto mount Sinai,

    Again, what proof do you have that these verses weren't originally written down this way? Unless you have the original writings of Moses then you have no proof.

    As for why Isaiah 1 is not in the Book of Mormon, I've already given you a possible explanation, but apparently you didn't read it or you don't believe it, but if you don't even accept it as a possibility then it would appear your emotions are clouding your logic.

  5. Joshua,

    Think about 1Nephi 13:26. It says that MANY "plain and precious things" were LOST. Now if that is true you (FARMS, FAIR and BYU) should find some evidence of this in history. We have the Dead Sea Scrolls, but unfortunately for Mormons, it shows that the Bible books are complete. (See the Great Isaiah Scroll which is complete with all 66 Chapters dated 150B.C.!!!).

    You said, "You say these writings were never in the Bible and ask me for proof that they were. What proof do you have that they weren’t?"

    MATTS RESPONSE: You need to defend the Book of Mormon. It says that the Bible has lost things and I say it has not. In fact, I showed and proved that the Book of Mormon has lost one of the most precious verses in the Bible. You do not get out of this problem by asking me to prove that the stories and visions that Joseph Smith revealed to the world in 1830 were never in the Bible. It is very obvious that they were never in the Bible because of several reasons:

    1. There are not in ANY ancient manuscripts.

    2. None of the Old Testament or New Testament prophets quote those verses.

    3. No early Church father quote anything from the Book of Mormon. (We re-construct the whole New Testament from the early Church Father except for about 2 verses).

    So. It is obvious to mmost Christians that the Bible is true and the Book of Mormon is a fictional story with few chapters from Isaiah, Micah, and Matthew inserted to make it look like the Bible.

    Revelation 22:19 NIV

    And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

    Deu 33:3 Yea, he loved the people; all his saints [are] in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; [every one] shall receive of thy words.

    2Tim 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness…"

    Rev. 3:20 says to invite Jesus into your life. You talk to invite the Jesus of the Bible into your life. The Bible is true and complete. If you think you should add the words of Joseph Smith to the book of Revelations then you will be cursed in eternity!!! The Lord has warned you.

    Repent!

    In Jesus' name,

    Matt

  6. I am not trying to prove to you that the Book of Mormon is true. I recognize I cannot prove something to someone who is determined to disbelieve it. Just as there are plenty of people who do not believe in the Bible despite the evidence, people would find ways to disbelieve the Book of Mormon is true even if the same amount of evidence were provided. I am merely pointing out that you cannot prove that it is false. Something is not automatically false just because there is a lack of evidence to prove it is true.

    The only sure proof for the Book of Mormon (or the Bible, for that matter), is to get an answer directly from God. Any other evidence is circumstantial.

    You might be interested in commenting on this post about Revelations 22:19 as well, since you bring that up.

  7. You said, "The Book of Mormon hasn’t “lost” anything, but it is a selective book that only includes writings that are related to its stated objective as specified on the title page…"

    MATTS RESPONSE: Reread Isaiah 1-14. The subject or context does not change from Isaiah 1 to Isaiah 2. In fact, there are no breaks in ancient manuscripts between Chapters 1 and 2 and, as far as I know, no scholar has ever suggested any contextual change. So, you need to find another answer.

    You said, "Something is not automatically false just because there is a lack of evidence to prove it is true."

    MATTS RESPONSE: The Qur'an is false. We both will agree. However, there must be some way to demonstrate that the Qur'an is fiction. The Qur'an comes from the mind of Mohammed and not God, right? So, we should be able to show the internal conflicts and contradictions and especially the conflicts it has with God's previous revelation, the Bible. Also, CARM has webpages on the conflicts with the Qur'an and science, (See http://www.carm.org/islam.htm).

    Likewise, the Book of Mormon is a fraud as the Qur'an. This fact can be easily demonstrated. Isaiah Chapter 1 is one of hundreds of problems with the Book of Mormon (http://www.carm.org/lds/bom_changes.htm). I have written a book on Mormonism showing how the BYU twists Mormonism to appear "Christian," (www.breakingthemormoncode.com).

    Finally, the Bible is true and you cannot find ANYTHING that has been lost from it. You are allowing Joseph Smith to fool you and your salvation is in peril.

    You need to check out your LDS faith by going to the Bible first. Once God shows you that the Bible is true, then you can pray for discernment and wisdom to see if other things are true or not.

    In Jesus' name,

    Matt Paulson

    CARM

  8. In our church we rely on God rather than scholars as the ultimate authority. For whatever reason, God didn't insist that Isaiah 1 be in the Book of Mormon. Maybe it truly was a mistake that God allowed to happen and didn't feel that he had to step in and correct. Maybe God purposely wanted it left out. I don't pretend to know what God was thinking about it, I can only speculate as to possible reasons.

    Actually, I don't agree that the Qur'an is false. I haven't read it and until I read it all the way through and research it for myself I'm not going to say one way or the other. From what I do know of the history of Islam, I'm inclined to believe Islam was established by God. Many true principles such as the worship of one God vs. many, caring for the poor, and chastity were brought to millions who otherwise might still be worshiping idols and doing who knows what. Overall, the effect of Islam appears to have been a positive one, and who am I to say God didn't send angels to visit Mohammad and tell him what to teach the people? I have no evidence to the contrary.

    I already know the Bible is true. But evidently you and I interpret the same passages of the Bible in different ways. You see the Bible as invalidating the Book of Mormon, and I see the Bible as confirming the truth of the Book of Mormon and vice versa.

  9. So… it's a belief. It's based on believing. If you don't believe, it won't make sense. That goes for any religion. You can't argue about it. It will get you no where. That's exactly what the devil wants you to do. The words you speak against each other come from one of the most dangerous sources… your mouth. Read the Book of Mormon, pray about it afterward, and ask God if it is the truth or not. Only then will you get your answer. If you find the truth, don't celebrate your spiritual wealth in the faces of others. Do it in private. Share the Word and the Gospel. But don't beat people with it! =)

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